Hm…….. Actually, northerns are the only dbt’s I’ve hatched. And I was told they (the original stock) were northerns. I’ve never been able to keep wild-caughts dbt’s alive (and gave up long ago), so all mine have come as captiveborn babies that I was told were this and that. I got a number of cb babies that were supposed to have been true ornates that ran the gamut of white to black. I was also told that by a native Floridian. Maybe not true – I don’t know – I haven’t had experience with any of them in the wild. And my littoralis have all come as babies – one from a wild-collected female. The rest have shown a range of light to dark. I’ve kept 2 that I’ve raised up. Now I’m wondering if any of them are pure. Of course, I’ve heard lots of stories about dumpings of all subspecies together in the wild. Maybe we should be only putting pictures in the files of wild dbts from known habitats? I’ve talked a few times with Dick Bartlett about this and it would be interesting to get his input. Dazed and confused, Rick Chun-Ming Chew wrote: