Todd, I believe the flatness of your male’s shell is indicative of certain individuals in populations of M.t. centrata, and sometimes M.t. terrapin. These populations also frequently have smoother shells, vs. the more grooved subspecies like macrospilota, littoralis and pileata. Since there was such a great deal of integration between subspecies, it is really hard to tell where this flat trait originates from, the carolinan or northern populations. I currently have a male like that also – his body shape almost looks like a male map turtle’s. Chun —–Original Message—– From: Sent: 9/30/00ᆱマ_11:07 AM To: terrapin@… Subject: [diamondbackterrapins] Just joined The most interesting pair we have came through a snake dealer who took them in trade and wanted to sell them quickly as he didn’t deal in turtles. He said they were very freindly, but what DBT isn’t? Well, this pair is amzaing. They’ll follow you around the house like a pair of puppies. The male insists on climbling up into your lap if you sit on the floor and likes to sit in your lap or on your chest. They both are tremedous beggers and will eat virtually anything offered from your hand, in the water or out, including watermellon and strawberries. The female is a grey carolina centrata, but the male is a little different. He’s VERY flat like a pancake. His shell is black and very rough but well formed. His head is white with black dots like many northerns. The only other DBT I’ve seen that was this flat was an all gray one at a nature center in Connecticut. Anyone have any more info. on these very flat DBTs? Are they just individuals or do they come from particular populations? Add voice to your e-mails. Free at http://www.ihello.com