Footage from Chinatown food market in Philadelphia
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xO4KRlTZh7E I shot this while picking out some of the terps in my care. Sorry about quality, they would ask me to leave if they knew I was filming, so I just let the camera hang around my neck, and acted like a customer, (and I did purchase turtles) and just clicked the camera on as I walked in. Its vile that these animals are STILL being harvested for the market. I know MD made it illegal last year, so which states are still allowing commerical take of these animals ?
Good lord! Geez it is seriously hard for me to watch this. I understand people eat turtles and especially Asians but it is another source of meat. I know it is tough for some of us turtle lovers, but that’s just fact that if it’s indigionous people are going to eat them. Since these diamondbacks are not under a threatened or endangered status I can’t see why they would make it illegal to harvest them. I was reading in April issue of Reptiles magazine that they were thinking of banning commercial harvesting of native turtles in Florida.. but whether or not that happens who knows. It mentioned the reasons for putting a ban on harvesting was because they didn’t have the man power to monitor how many fishermen are harvesting turtles or the numbers of wild populations of native turtles. Since they couldn’t figure that out they want to put a ban on all native turtle harvesting. We can just cross our fingers…. but again this is a source of food for someone. I think the real issues I have with all of this is the health of the turtles before they are killed and used for food. I went to a huge Asian grocery store here in Dallas and saw their “LIVE” foods and most of their critters in the tanks were dead or dying. Why in the world would I want to buy a dying fish or dead fish in a tank for food… who knows how long its been dead or what it died from before I decided to buy it and cook it. I think if we even got on these Asian markets for the condition of their “live” food sales then maybe we can effect the sales and quantity that they buy. It’s my two cents…… thank you for giving us an insight into this…. it’s sad and you almost want to just take the bin of turtles and run out the front door. Most of those turtles like they were heading to the great beyond within the hour in that video. They have to sit there and suffer and most likely get tossed in a bin if they are too far gone or dead at the end of the day. $8 a terrapin…. good lord I wonder how much he bought that bin for wholesale Michaela — In diamondbackterrapins@yahoogroups.com, “A.R.J.F. Archambault -”
Hi, and thanks for looking. I am passionate about conservation, and did wanted to clarify a few things, and add some things like how “Indigenous people” eating turtles has NOTHING to do with the wholesale commercial take of turtles by certain cultures worldwide. Indigenous people do eat turtles, and can impact populations, but there are no “indigenous people” left within the range of the Terrapin to severely impact them. The reason these animals need to be protected, as much as anything else, is sustainability. DBT’s are under so much pressure from habitat loss, pollution, and many other reasons, there is simply no way the species can survive commercial harvest long term. No turtle species seems to be able to really, because they are not the sort of animals that can go from young to viable breeding animal quick enough to deal with the pressures. The banning of the commercial harvest of turtles is probably a very good thing across the board. While this action may impact some people trying to breed these animals, it would seem to me that it would do far more good for them then it could bad. And at $8.00 each retail, I can not imagine there is any real money to be made from these animals for the fishermen taking them either, so from a “Its our job you are threatening” front, that does not really hold up either. Limited harvests of turtles, when they were not as seriously under pressure as they are today are/were one thing, but taking thousands of pounds of these animals, specifically reproductive females for the domestic market or export, is quite another. As stated here – “Note: Maryland, New Jersey and New York are the only states in the above list that allow a commercial terrapin fishery. In 2001 when this article was published the MD DNR’s dealer reports reflect a take of “no reports” and 80 pounds the previous year. As of 2004 this figure soared to 14,664.5 pounds.” http://www.cterrapin.org/positionreferences.html If NJ allows commercial harvest, that seems pretty strange to me, as I know it does not allow personal harvest with or without a permit, (I use this against the people who sometimes go crabbing alongside me and my friends there and try to keep the DBT’s they catch in the crab traps – I tell them its illegal to do that, and threaten to call the game officer on them) and I know it does not allow NJ residents to sell turtles within the state of NJ. I do know that they do release hatchlings produced from the eggs of road killed females to try to help the population. Because of what some of these animals look like, I am assuming they are Carolina DBT’s though I know they can be hard to distinguish from the Northerns, so it is possible that Ming, Gem, and Empress are all Northerns. I would like to know what states still allow commercial harvest so that I can have that information to provide. If ALL of the states that allow commercial harvest of this species are shut, and the animals were not legally harvested in any state, then there would be NO “source” for all of these food market animals. If the animals continued to show up in the markets (I expect they might, like bear gallbladders) then legal action could be taken regarding where the animals were procured from. Anyway, the “source of food” argument holds no water IMHO regarding these animals in US markets – Terps, and really turtles are NOT a sustenance food here, and are strictly a luxury or “medicinal” item. They are surrounded by piles of fish, shellfish, waterfowl, chicken, most of which are far cheaper. These animals are being removed from the wild at their peak and tortured simply to satisfy a cultural belief/whim. I would have much less concern/frustration if these were farmed animals – I would still find the conditions and treatment of these creatures atrocious, but look what we do to millions of cattle and chickens as a culture – its not much different. :/ These turtles are being pushed on from yet another angle, and we are at risk, not only of severely threatening the species, but also from threatening the ecosystems and habitats they live in by removing them. Many of the animals in this bin were dead, or near dead. I brought 5 animals home, and 2 of the females that I brought home the first time died within a day, they were just too far gone. The three that survived (Gem, Ming and Empress – all pictures in photos under “Alans Turtles” are doing well, though 2 developed minor shell rot on their plastrons and it is being treated. There were a large number of these individuals that were still in the bin when I returned to the market a month later – like that big female Florida Softshell. She had a characteristic scar across her back, and had been there at least a month. This indicates to me that there is not an especially high turnover rate for these animals, at least in this individual market. I was/am hoping to get video of them butchering a terp, (The animals are hacked apart by cutting the bridge of the carapace first, and then they are split open while alive – they are not beheaded first – I have seen it many times) as while it is horrible to watch, I thought it would make people aware of exactly what is going on. Alan – http://nytts.org/Asianturtlecrisis.html — In diamondbackterrapins@yahoogroups.com, “michaela_mullen”
Thank you for the video Alan, the conditions these terrapins are kept in are horrible, I couldn’t imagine eating something that was sick and half dying. Michaela, I know what you are saying about the cultural significance of the food source but our conservation stance isn’t meant to stop people from eating turtles. As much as we all hate to see it, that isn’t what is going to hinder their survival. What we are trying to prevent is the wild harvest of our native species because as was proven around the turn of the century, turtles are not a sustainable harvest due to their slow growth and limited reproductive success. There is decent success with these turtle farms and they can satisfy the food market without impacting our ecosystems. What a lot of folks don’t realize is how fast a population can collapse when select regions are targeted heavily. The end of the Maryland harvest was a great success but we have to protect other turtles besides the diamondback so they don’t take its place, as we have already seen this happen here with the snapping turtles which we are now trying to regulate more heavily. There can be a common sense blend of culture and conservation in my opinion, we just have to educate the public that if they want a food source like turtles, they want to protect it so it is actually still around in the years to come, don’t even get me started on the blue crab, haha. -ScottFrom: michaela_mullen
I understand this need. Trust me … and I have seen the horrible photos in Asian markets of a guy smoking a cigarette after cutting the shell off the turtle and it laying there suffering. I am guess I am just trying to put another point of view into perspective in this conversation. Truly I live in a Southern state and don’t hear all the activity going on up the Northern coast. I am on your side… I’d love to see the harvest of turtles end. I can tell Alan that you are very passionate about this… but I have seen this time and again that even if even you add regulations to the markets on the care of the turtles when they sell them or maybe have more federal agents or volunteers monitoring these markets as you do as well as coastal areas we can maybe impact the harvesting and possibly ban it. I just think in this world some people just don’t get it into their heads that what they are doing is bad… to them it almost seems that any and all animals are seen as a source of food and they are sticking with this. I have even talked with individuals that go out trapping animals and reptiles to sell that don’t give a lick about the animals and they think it is just fun. It’s frustrating…. but truly we should not push down other’s for having another point of view and instead educate them… I volunteer at the Dallas Zoo and I have enough with the PETA people coming and protesting there where they are better usefulness would be animal abuse or endangered and threatened species. I understand both of you and again I am on your side… I just think that there is more yellow tape and work that needs to be done before we can get a ban on turtle/terrapin harvesting. First step is to get our legislatures involved with good old fashion research and population numbers. Michaela — In diamondbackterrapins@yahoogroups.com, Scott McDaniel
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