New additive to our tap water.
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The water company is going to be changing the cleaning additive from Chlorine to Chloramen (not sure about the spelling.) This is going to happen in 05. I have been told a lot of other cites are already using Chloramen, including DC. I don’t know if this will be hardful to diamondback terrapins. Does anyone live in an area were they are already using Chloramen? If how are you diamondbacks doing and are you treating the water? Does anyone know of any research on Chloramen? Thanks Jonathan Los Angeles, CA http://www.diamondbackterrapin.com
Jonathan, Here are a few links from the EPA’s website related to the use of Chloramine. Based on what I read subsequent to your question I wouldn’t be willing to risk it w/o RO filtration or finding a different water source altogether. Bryan General Info: http://www.epa.gov/region09/water/chloramine.html Effects on animals. Studies limited. http://www.epa.gov/ncea/pdfs/drinkchapter5.pdf Other EPA Chloramine links: http://oaspub.epa.gov/webi/meta_first_new2.try_these_first — Jonathan Helms
P.S. This statement appears in the info from the EPA… “Fish owners must neutralize or remove chloramines from water used in aquariums or ponds. Treatment products are readily available at aquarium supply stores.” Presumably that would extend to other aquatic life as well. -B — Bryan Richey
Fish Facts Here’s an excerpt from: http://www.co.arlington.va.us/dpw/wss/wquality/fish.htm How Chloramine will affect your Fish We are advising everyone with live fish to treat the water – either by filtering or by using a chemical dechloramination agent. How you do it and how often you do it is going to depend on your individual system. Commercial, scientific and residential fish owners have tanks and ponds that range from one gallon to several thousand gallons, and there is no “magic formula” for determining the right way to do it. Often times there are several solutions. What will work the best and easiest for you is up to you to decide. Talk to your aquarium or pond supply professional, other fish owners, or appropriate maintenance organizations for ideas. As a public agency the Arlington County Department of Public Works Water, Sewer, and Streets Division cannot recommend one commercial brand over another, or tell you how to modify or run your system. We can give you some general ideas of what works or what others have done to neutralize chloramine: Activated charcoal (carbon) filtration systems Sodium thiosulfate (dechlorinates but doesn’t deal with ammonia) Commercially available dechloramination products (check the labels, since some simply remove the chlorine, while others “lock up” or detoxify the remaining ammonia) A chemical agent plus a biological filter (agent to remove chlorine, biofilter to remove the ammonia) For Koi fanciers we can report that the San Diego Koi Club has found that if you are replacing less than one percent of the total water volume of your system at any one time, the pond may be able to absorb the new chloraminated water with little to no impact on the fish. This would allow time for internal pond filtration systems to be used to remove the chloramine. Making small water changes or additions at a time could be a definite maintenance advantage. If you are testing the water, be sure that you get a test kit that is designed for chloraminated water. An ammonia test kit with the wrong kind of active agent may give a false positive reading even after the ammonia has been detoxified. These kits are available at aquarium supply stores. It is important to test your pond water to make sure there is not a build-up of ammonia. FACTS AND ANSWERS Unlike chlorine, chloramine will not dissipate to the atmosphere by standing or aerating. Boiling will not remove chloramine. Chloramine passes through the gills of fish and directly enters their bloodstream. In the blood, chloramine chemically binds to the iron in the hemoglobin in red blood cells causing a reduction in the cells capacity to carry oxygen. Chemical additives for dechloraminating water you add to your tank or pond (makeup water) are available at pet/fish supply stores. Sodium thiosulfate added to chloraminated water will neutralize chlorine, but ammonia is released. Water should ideally be dechloraminated in a separate container to neutralize chlorine and ammonia before being added to a tank or pond. A pond with an established biological filter (one that has cycled through the nitrogen cycle – has converted ammonia to nitrite to nitrate) can remove ammonia. Tap water used with artificial sea salts for makeup water in salt water fish tanks must be dechloraminated. The proper amount of neutralizing chemical is sometimes added to the pond prior to or simultaneously with the makeup water. Water additions should be as small as possible, so the fish are not stressed as the biological filter cleanses the water. Avoid large water changes. Adjustment of pH may be more critical because of the possible addition of ammonia. At a pH of 8.5, ammonia is about 11% un-ionized, which is the potentially toxic form but at a pH of 7.0 it is only 0.4%. The total ammonia addition to water produced by Washington Aqueduct, our wholesale supplier, is anticipated to be about 0.4 to 0.5 parts per million. The quantity of makeup water to be added should be estimated to determine the required amount of dechloraminating chemical. The water quantity can be found using the water meter, timing the filling of a bucket, or by the amount the pond depth would increase, not the total pond volume. (Depth increase: multiply length times width times depth – all measurements in feet – to obtain the volume in cubic feet, multiply that by 7.5 to obtain the gallons of water to be added.) Automatic makeup water systems may have to be operated manually to allow the proper amount of dechloraminating chemicals to be added simultaneously with the makeup water. Carbon filters should be operated at a slow rate for best chloramine removal. They should be monitored carefully to determine when the carbon media has reached the end of its useful life and needs to be changed. Manufacturers often indicate the maximum number of gallons that can be filtered before renewal of the filters is required. Check with the supplier for proper operation. Testing the residual from the filter will help determine the best filtration rate. Most pet shops in our area use stress coat: http://www.aquatichouse.com/Water%20Conditioners/StressCoat.asp It helps heal/prevent wounds and infection, and neutralizes chlorine, chloramines and toxic heavy metals. It can cause foaming in salt water aquaria however due to the mucilaginous properties of the Aloe Vera in it. If foaming is an issue then a brand that doesn’t boast the coating or herbal healing/calming aspect would likely be better. Don’t know if this product deals with the ammonia though. Ammo-Lock 2 seems to do it all… neutralize the chloramines and locks up the ammonia in a non-toxic form that your bio-filters should be able to eliminate and I don’t think foaming is an issue… any people use Ammo-lock 2 or any other brands that would care to comment? Hope this helps… Michelle —–Original Message—– From: Bryan Richey [mailto:bryanrichey@…] Sent: Monday, June 21, 2004 10:34 PM To: diamondbackterrapins@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [diamondbackterrapins] New additive to our tap water. All, This statement was excerpted from the EPA’s website and would presumably extend to other aquatic life as well. “Fish owners must neutralize or remove chloramines from water used in aquariums or ponds. Treatment products are readily available at aquarium supply stores.” -B — Bryan Richey
Sodium thiosulfate will “neutralize” or lock the active effects of the Chloramines and chlorine (hypochlorite). Ususally the concentration at your tap is much lower than the treatment plant. Your tap will also vary from day to day slightly. Most any of the chlorine treatments from Wal-Mart or the pet stores will work. And as for ill effects towards DBT’s, it might irritate their eyes a little for the first few hours and after a day or so it will be gone. It will also kill some of your beneficial bacteria in your tank and maybe a few fish. The loss of beneficial bacteria will cause the water to stink and get nasty much quicker after feeding. I just use the drops from the store and be done with worrying about it. -Scott — In diamondbackterrapins@yahoogroups.com, “Jonathan Helms”
Turtles are just not sensitive to any low levels of amonia or chlorine at the tap. Most all of us have been drinking it all our lives, at least until the bottled water fad a few years ago. If I just have turtles and no fish in a tank then I do not add any neutralizers if the water change was 50% or less. If I don’t have dechlorinator on hand or if the turtle tank is a temporary one then I won’t bother using it at all. If you try to adjust the pH without a slow buffer or add salt all at one time after you fill a tank will irritate them much more than the chlorine or chloramine levels at your tap. -Scott
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